Holly Poly 2018: Dates

[settiai]

Thank you everyone for all of your feedback, both on the last post and via private messages. The majority of people wanted to keep the timeline similar to previous ones, so that is what we will be doing. There have been a few changes (shortening certain periods, lengthening others, and pushing the golive back slightly to give more time for last minute pinch-hits to be taken care of), but overall the schedule is not extremely different from previous years.

Here is the planned schedule for this year:


Dates:

All deadlines are for 11:59pm EDT/EST. The exact time for golive will depend on last-minute pinch hits and the like.

30 September - 14 October: Nominations are open.
18-28 October: Signups are open.
31 October: Assignments will be sent out no later than this date.
13 January: Fanworks are due.
18 January: The archive goes live (as soon as everyone has a gift).
25 January: Creators revealed


The FAQs for this year's exchange have also been updated. Please let me know if anything is unclear, or if there is anything listed there that you feel should be changed or updated.

Comments

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

Are we allowed to request in our optional details ships that might not be healthy or consensual? Of course with the knowledge that optional details are optional.

(frozen) (no subject)

[settiai]

Yes, it is perfectly fine to request whatever you would like in your optional details, including things such as noncon and dubcon. As you said, however, it is entirely up to the person creating for you whether or not they include that aspect of your request in the fanwork they are creating.

It's fine to request A/B/C where A/B are gaslighting C, but if you're assigned to someone who's not comfortable with that then you may get A/B/C curtainfic. So if you'd only be happy with an unhealthy or dark version of the relationship and would be disappointed if you received anything else, do keep that in mind when signing up.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

I was hoping this exchange kept not allowing non-con, as in previous years, just to make things easier for everybody. If I was assigned to somebody requesting a specific non-con setting for a particular ship I'd feel really awkward writing them something else. There's plenty of other exchanges to request non-con, but none for polyamory.

(frozen) (no subject)

[settiai]

Optional details are optional, and I'm going to emphasize that people signing up give multiple prompts for their creators to work with - especially if one of their prompts involves a topic or subject matter that people are often uncomfortable to work with such as non-con, dub-con, power imbalances, etc.

That said, if a creator absolutely feels like they cannot create a fanwork for their assigned recipient, they will have the option to contact the mod e-mail so that we can come up with a solution. I will not be penalizing creators who are unable to create a fanwork for a specific person due to the nature of a request, as long as they contact me ASAP once assignments go out. (It will be a different matter if they wait until the due date to let me know.)

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

If that's what you want to do fine, but it still leaves a lot of room for unnecessary complications and goes against what the exchange is about imo. It makes about as much sense to allow gang rape in a polyamory exchange as it would to allow non-incestuous relationships in an incest exchange or curtain fic in a non-con exchange.

(frozen) (no subject)

[settiai]

The biggest issue, and one that has come up in the past, is that noncon (and dubcon, which also wasn't allowed previously) doesn't just include things like gang rape. It can include things such as sex while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, gaslighting, severe power imbalances, and a variety of types of relationships that aren't particularly healthy but are still technically poly relationships depending on the situation.

I'm trying my best to allow for people who are fans of those types of relationships to request them in this exchange while giving people who aren't comfortable with them options as well. I know that nothing I do will make everyone happy, but I'm trying to compromise as much as possible when it comes to this specific situation.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

But why do we need to compromise? There are exchanges that are all about non-con and dark themes, people can request whatever ship combinations and kinks they want and no one is going to butt in asking for healthy relationships. This is an exchange about polyamory, and by definition polyamory isn't about any of the things you listed above.

(frozen) (no subject)

[settiai]

The issue is that one person's definition isn't always someone else's definition. For example, some people considering having sex while under the influence of alcohol or drugs to be noncon no matter what. Some people consider that to always be dubcon. Others believe that, as long as everyone is in a similar state and no coercion is happening, it doesn't count as either.

The same goes with power imbalances. For example, with Mass Effect, several of the canon relationships involving the main character of Shepard could be considered dubcon considering the difference in military rank between them and their partner. The same could be said of most relationships involving characters from the various Star Trek series, due to the difference in their Starfleet ranks. Or with Harry Potter, with relationships involving teachers/students; some people think that as long as everyone's adults, then it's fine, while other people believe that it's considered dubcon no matter what because of the past power imbalance.

It's a slippery slope, and I'd rather not try to impose my definition of terms on people who might view them differently. That's why I'm trying to compromise.

And once again, optional details are just that: optional. If someone wants to request a story with darker elements, they're free to do so as long as they know that the person assigned to them is free to not include those elements in the fanwork that they create if they're not comfortable doing so. And if someone specifically doesn't want certain things included in their gift, DNWs listed in the request itself will be enforced.

If it will help, I'd also be glad to let anyone who has strong DNWs when it comes to what they're assigned (such as having no mention of noncon/dubcon/etc. in their assignment) send an e-mail when they signup so that I can try to make certain they're not assigned something that makes them uncomfortable.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

But this is just moving the goalposts. The specific question, throughout the comments on this post, has been whether something *that is consciously defined by reader and writer as not being consensual* belongs in this exchange. And when asked to explain the rule change, you keep changing the question to "what if someone wants fic about such-and-such relationship that they *see as consensual* but someone else might say is inherently non-consensual".

I feel like it's a popular f_fa thing, switching back and forth between those two arguments and saying it's the other person who's confused about the difference? Not that I think you're deliberately misconstruing the other anon's comments, but I think you are at least mistaken about them, maybe because that trend in fandom discourse is so pervasive.

(frozen) (no subject)

[settiai]

The specific question, throughout the comments on this post, has been whether something *that is consciously defined by reader and writer as not being consensual* belongs in this exchange.

For the purposes of the rules this year, then answer to this is "yes." People are free to request whatever they would like in regards to relationships, as long as they understand that optional details are optional and the person who is creating a fanwork for them is free to ignore that aspect of the request.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

Easier for you, you mean. The options shouldn't be limited to what you personally are comfortable with. Since Crueltide is a part of Yuletide, I see no reason dark topics should be forbidden out of hand in Holly Polly.

Also, there is plenty of coercion in real-life polyamours relationships, just like there is in monogamous relationships. It's not an inherently more enlightened lifestyle, despite what its evangelists claim. Abusers can be found anywhere.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

Because Holly Poly has never allowed those topics before and it was fine like that? Guess what, people survived and got their non-con elsewhere.

It's easier for everybody if people who want non-con can request it where they're sure to get it and people who want actual polyamory don't have their request matched to someone who'd rather write dark themes.

Idk what RL has to do with this, I know perfectly well there are abusers anywhere.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

What it has to do with it is your claim that dark themes is not "actual" polyamory. Which is patently false. An unhealthy relationship is still a relationship, whether you like it or not.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, it was "fine" for you, but many of us hated that rule.

So.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

Hey anon. Don't know if you're tracking this thread, but, it's not just you! I was also looking forward to having one single fest where I could just count on it to be a rape-porn-free experience. That's actually why I was going to do this one. Was pretty happy to find out about it. But we don't count. I don't know what I expected, tbh.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

Funny, I've been taking part in multifandom exchanges that allowed noncon for 10+ years and I always had a rape-porn-free experience myself. Just because I don't enjoy a thing doesn't mean that no one else is allow to enjoy that thing. It's not like the exchange has cooties just because some people are writing or requesting noncon.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

Not just you two either. I'm a sexual assault survivor and sick of how noncon has infiltrated everything.

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

What, is Poly Trolley dead?

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

This has been around longer. They're just at different times in the year. Poly Trolley isn't dead.

(frozen) (no subject)

[settiai]

For the purposes of this year's exchange, participants are allowed to request whatever they would like as long as they understand that optional details are optional. I will be freezing this entire thread, as the conversation is no longer productive at this point in time.